I like it, but is it jazz?

teddy

Duckmeister
Where does jazz start and finish. We have had that discussion before, and I have given my opinion on it. I would say that this is not a form of jazz that any purist would recognise, but do I like it? Yes

teddy
 

Dorsetmike

New member
Courtney Pine may be classed as Jazz by some, but for me it's gone the same way as other contemporary genres, a tuneless noise. What happened to rythm/beat and at least some attempt at melody/harmony? Maybe somebody can explain in fairly simple terms what this track has to do with music, apart from being performed on a musical instrument; it may demonstrate some dexterity and/or virtuosity of some description but not in my jazz definition.

How about this? For me the first clip is a bit "commercial" but the following Boogie is great. (2 clips in one file)

(Any guesses as to piano or band?)
 

Attachments

  • isitjz2.mp3
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JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief

A lot of Stanley Jordan's work definitely is jazz, but this seems to be on the borderline.
What ever it is, to me it is an unholy blady noise the perpetrator should be shot slowly
 

stu

New member
As Teddy and John said in as many words where does jazz begin and end. This stuff is too insipid for my taste. Obviously a talented musician but Jordan tends to lean too much towards the box office.
Hold your fire Colin with the gunshots! For me, a two fisted rock drummer usually makes me run for the air raid shelter. Mortar bombs galore!!
 

JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief
For me, a two fisted rock drummer usually makes me run for the air raid shelter. Mortar bombs galore!!
In small group jazz a "Drummer????" that uses sticks is a buffoon.
 

stu

New member
IMO, In small group jazz, give or take the 'very' occasional buffon, I enjoy the nuances, shading, rim shots, subtleties, and -yes -the effective explosions, but I am a coward when the timbre of the music is replaced by the word "Timber!" from a wood chopping match gripped drummer. In such instances the entire drum kit seems devoid of tuning as all drums are whacked incessantly but the same effect can be had from one drum! But, that's just me, maybe because when I tune in to radio, or television, the air waves are without fail, awash with...rock beat lumpy thump machine gun fire! Most of those drummers might be technically brilliant, tasteful, play with feeling, and be explosive, but it wouldn't be popular if they 'played the drums'. That's just my opinon though! We all march to a different drummer. :(
 
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JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief
A really top notch Drummer can get away with it but how many of that caliber are around? what you say makes sense in general but playing in a Trio or Quartet brushes are (or were) the preferred tool for 95% of the work, let him get it out of his system if he must with the occasional solo :D
 

stu

New member
You are right Colin. Not many opportunities for some nifty brushwork nowadays. Very few anyway. Drummers now are mostly an equally vociferous (if that's the right word!) part of a small group, always with the sticks. Continually at work, shading, improvising, effects etc. That's okay by me, I like a good drummer, but not overly intrusive thus nullifying the efforts of other group members.
As I said, I guess I live in fear when I go to concerts now when especially, in a trio or quartet setting, (hmmm, any size of a band really) that inevitably LOUD repetitive rock beat kicks in! For me, all interesting music vanishes in the onslaught! :cry:
 

JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief
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As I said, I guess I live in fear when I go to concerts now when especially, in a trio or quartet setting, (hmmm, any size of a band really) that inevitably LOUD repetitive rock beat kicks in! For me, all interesting music vanishes in the onslaught! :cry:

Loud Rock? is there any other kind :D The thing that finally killed electric guitar for me were the horrendous rock chords played at max volume and ever since I have relegated it to the delete bin, I am too old now to reinstate it
 

stu

New member
Overamplified amplifiers! There seems to be quite a large audience attracted to them. Money is to be made by their presence. I recall attending a concert by the jazz blues alto saxophone man Eddie 'Cleanhead' Vinson and his quartet, and prior to his appearance there had been some real heavy amplication stuff being churned out. Eddie followed them and kicked off his first number, got half a chorus in then stopped. He yelled to the sound technician and signalled to him to switch off the amplifiers. He then explained that he and others like him had never needed much amplification during their days playing, not only in small clubs but in vast concert halls, and one microphone was all that was needed. He said they didn't even need to overblow because they had learned their trade by spreading the sound evenly throughout the halls.
But I guess the guitarists have other ideas! :)
 

JHC

Chief assistant to the assistant chief
Yeh I know the feeling, my local event centre ( that sounds grand but it is a small theater that holds about 120-150) had a jazz ens that consisted of Keyboard electric bass guitar alto sax and ....... wait for it .................amplified electric violin ....... there is worse to come their repertoire for the evening was made up of the old jazz classics from the 50s all top rate stuff which was completely ruined by the sound, I have not been to a jazz concert since. obviously it was at max volume.
Apart from in the recording studio only one mic is needed on stage and that is for announcements.
Gee we are showing our age like two grumpy old men...
 

stu

New member
Grumpy old men. Nah! Colin. We just moan a little. Age has nothing to do with it. Well not really! As I tell my 10 year old grandson, I may be 76 now but I still have the good nature of a man of 75.
 

Dorsetmike

New member
How about this? For me the first clip is a bit "commercial" but the following Boogie is great. (2 clips in one file)

(Any guesses as to piano or band?)
paperclip.png
Attached Files

I didn't notice any comments on the above, was it that bad?????
 

stu

New member
No it wasn't bad Mike. Sorry we must have overlooked this one. I will try a guess. The first one is a bit commercial as you say. However, the tracks sound like the Albert Ammons and Pete Johnson version of Boogie Woogie Jump.
Can't say if it is them playing though!
 

teddy

Duckmeister
Just to jump back into this thread, the use of brushes requires delicacy and subtlety, not something every drummer has, however good they may be with the sticks.

teddy
 

stu

New member
I agree Teddy. One of my favourites with brushes was Jo Jones. (Teddy. I thought you were away on holiday? )

Mike, I will try for the British boogie player, Stan Grieg.
 
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