Health Care

[White Knight]

As most of the world knows, this country is undergoing many debates and possible changes in the next few years[ assuming the President's reform package isn't scuttled] vis a vis many aspects of our health care system and its effectiveness and availability to the majority of Americans. From those of my fellow MIMF members who do not live in America, I would be interested in knowing what they make of this controversy. Also, I would really like to find out what you think of your particular country's health care/delivery system as compared to America's. As Americans, we have heard a lot of talk about how much better the Canadian or Scandinavian systems are in contrast to ours. Is this true--and if it is--why is this so? I would also like to hear from my British colleagues as to their opinions on the National Health Service [?]--not sure if that's the proper term--and its effectiveness in providing them with "quality health care".

 

[Dorsetmike]

Any health system where the medics want to see money/insurance up front is wrong, you can not put a price on life. Some level of health care should be state provided, especially emergency treatment for life threatening events. Health should not be dependant on ability to pay

The British NHS could be an excellent service if it wasn't for the top heavy administration and bureaucracy "too many chiefs, not enough indians". If they could get rid of the many unnecessary top and middle management they could use the money thus saved to employ enough front line staff at a realistic wage.

Typical inefficiencies include the financial fiddle of employing agency staff at higher cost than permanent staff because they can disguise it under a different part of their budget. Instead they should redo their budgeting such that they allow enough funds to pay for an adequate staffing level

Often there will be waiting lists for some less critical cases, this is an area where privately funded treatment for those able to afford it is justfiable. However there needs to be some regulation of practices example what is the point of a partial hysterectomy? Followed in a couple of years by a second op to remove the remainder, just a way to get paid twice for the same job! Dentists doing fillings with inadequate materials which need redoing at intervals (I don't recall this happening in my younger years)

All countries need to sort out the medicine makers such that medication is sold for a realistic price. Basic pills such as aspirin, paracetamol and ibuprofen can be bought in supermarkets (at least in UK) for a tenth of the price of the same item from a brand name maker, a similar state of affairs exists for things like antacids & cough medicines. Cold and Flu' remedies are often a mixture of two or more of the following, aspirin, paracetamol, ibuprofen & caffeine with some sort of flavouring yet cost way more than is justifiable and often less effective than the basic pills.

 

[marval]

I am with Mike on this, health care should be available for all. Not everyone can afford health insurance, and there are definately too many people at the top. The money should go into the care of the patients, meaning doctors and nurses who do all the hard/good work. People should not have to decide if they can afford to get treated.


Margaret

 

[White Knight]

Mike and Marval, thanks for those insights into your health care system. Mike, you seem to imply that things were better in your "younger days". Why do you feel this way?

 

[Dorsetmike]

A number of reasons Steve, diminishing moral standards, respect, discipline and attitudes, plus the growth of big business and the growth of the "blame culture".

Trying to apply inappropriate business practices to health care: some cases will take longer than others or need different treatments, you can't apply work study practices in an emergency room. Burying medical staff in paperwork (same goes for other "emergency services" fire, police and ambulance) You can't quantify doctors and nurses work in terms of number of patients dealt with per day. Same with police being given quotas, x arrests per week or driving/parking tickets issued. Not the way to do things!

At one time if you tripped over a broken kerbstone you called yourself an idiot for not looking where you were going, now people would assume it is the fault of the local authority for not maintaining the roads and pavements (sidewalks) and sue them for negligence causing injury/damage, "oh dear I bruised my toe, oh! the trauma! the stress! I had to take a month off work, you must pay me loadsa money in compensation"

More attention being paid to the perpetrator of a crime than the victim, a man being jailed for injuring a person burgling his property. Youths attacking and seriously injuring a senior citizens who remonstrate with them for causing damage to a car or other property.

Parents and school staff not allowed to discipline children with a slap even, let alone a cane , strap, slipperor other traditional means. Spare the rod and spoil the child is very true, although a severe thrashing or beating is not acceptable.

A quickly administered slap, delivering a short, sharp pain that stings is remembered in a way that a heavier punishment would not, the heavy punishment could well cause resentment or fear. Explanation of why certain behaviour is wrong should always be given the first time or two that it occurs, the slap only comes after repeats of that behaviour.

Detentions suspensions and similar "sanctions" are not sufficient unless there is some more severe recourse available.

Sports and games used to be fun, now they are just over hyped media entertainment attractions and big business. No sportsman or other entertainer is worth the thousands of £/$ per week that they are paid, the same goes for other entertainers. Basically too much being spent on talentless trivia.

Anyway enough ranting for one session.

 

[marval]

The local policeman on the beat, used to be able to give a naughty child a clip round the ear. Sometimes he would tell their parents, it usually meant they would then behave. Not allowed to do it now, no proper discipline in school either.

When I was a child our doctor had his surgery in his house. There was always a doctor to come out if you were too ill to visit him. They always seemed to have the time for you too, none of this "what's wrong? take this, goodbye."


Margaret

 

[dll927]

When I was a kid, I knew better than to get in trouble at school, because that was nothing compared to at home. These days, if a teacher steps on Johnny's tender little toes, Soccer Mom will be in the principal's office the next morning, and the teacher will get the blame for the whole scene.

I'm a retired teacher myself. If most of the teachers I had in elementary and high school ( in the 1940's and 50's) were to find themselves in a present-day school, they would shake their heads and go for the front door, saying "This not a school".

As for medical care, I don't have an answer. There are so many different entities with their hands in the mix that you can't do anything to please one without the rest screaming. Here in California there is a lot of yelling about medical care given to illegal aliens and other "emergency room" care -- they wait until that point to do anything.

It has long been true that medical care costs far too much. Everybody involved thinks they can justify their part of the cost, but they are also serving themselves. I don't think Bam-bam care is going to solve much of that. And the debate seems to be open about whether it will really do anything about costs.

 

[White Knight]

Hi dll927. I know exactly to what you refer re: the teaching profession, as my father is a retired high-school English teacher. One of the reasons he was glad to "get out" when he did [in the middle eighties] was that his and his colleagues' abilitiies to fairly discipline and maintain order in the school was being more frequently challenged--and often--undercut because of "political correctness". He still loved to teach and would have stayed on, but being "old school" wasn't very accepted or popular anymore. As far as "Obamacare" and its potential for cost reduction and/or more effective health care coverage and delivery, one of my big disappointments--and concerns--with his final product is that he backtracked on his campaign pledge to back the so called "public option" feature, which would have have loosened the insurance companies' stranglehold and monopolisation on price setting, and given the consumers--us--more of an even playing field by making the whole process more competitive. Of course the big companies were against this as it would have cut into their profit margins--God forbid! :shake:

 

[JHC]

Our health system (NZ) is not too bad but you have to go on waiting lists for just about every thing e.g. My Wife's recent problem, after the first check in the public system we were told it would take months to see the first specialist and being urgent we were advised to go private which we did, my wife has had scans and checks + 3 opps and is now recovering from opp #4, hopefully the final major. this has taken just over 2 mths.
We would still be months away in the public system and in all probability by the time we could see the 1st Doc it could be too late, but we are senior citizens and disposable. I was fortunate in that I kept up health ins after retirement its expensive but has been well worth it.

 

[marval]

Well I am glad you are able to keep up health insurance. I do hope that all goes well for your wife, and that no more treatment is needed. It is similar here, we go on waiting lists, the old never seem to be top priority.


Margaret

 

[JHC]

Well I am glad you are able to keep up health insurance. I do hope that all goes well for your wife, and that no more treatment is needed. It is similar here, we go on waiting lists, the old never seem to be top priority.


Margaret

Thanks Margaret, Just had a call from her this morning, she is still wired up and no food yet, it was a 4hr opp, and the good news will be one more opp in 3 mths time.

 

[White Knight]

Thanks Margaret, Just had a call from her this morning, she is still wired up and no food yet, it was a 4hr opp, and the good news will be one more opp in 3 mths time.

Hi Colin. Here's hoping for your wife's speedy and complete recovery. I hope you remain safe and well. Best regards, Steve.

 

[JHC]

Hi Colin. Here's hoping for your wife's speedy and complete recovery. I hope you remain safe and well. Best regards, Steve.

Thanks Steve, learning how to feed my self is a hoot :grin: at least I have not reverted to McDonalds yet

 

[White Knight]

Colin, you're a better man than me! I just had some Mickey D's for lunch.

 

[Dorsetmike]

I've been used to doing most of the cooking for over 30 years, I was home from work first so it made sense. Since Joyce passed on in 2008 it's mostly been cooking for myself, I sometimes have a "fast food", maybe once a week, or a chinese takeout. I do some stir fry dishes with rice or noodle, curry, pasta, stews, casseroles and roasts, - plenty of variety.

I do use some frozen veg, partly because unless I can find loose (unpackaged) things there is often more in a pack than I can eat before it goes stale.

 

[JHC]

I will run out of baked beans one day

 

[White Knight]

And Mcdonald's awaits you with open arms--I mean arches. :devil:

 

[teddy]

I wrote quite a long piece for this thread a few days age, and deleted ed it instead of saving it.
The problem over here is that the NHS is top heavy with administrators. Wards are run by clerks instead of matrons nowadays. The nurses are trained at a desk instead on on the ward. This attracts a different type of person to the job, and they do not seem to be taught compassionate hands on nursing any more. The last government messed things up badly by setting targets, which looked good on paper but did no favours for patients...who would be left sitting in ambulances because their waiting time only started once they entered the hospital. Minor operations went up, to show that more operations were being done, but we have one of the worst cancer survival records in Europe. All show and no go. My life was saved by having private health insurance, but as we get older it gets more expensive, and I doubt I will be able to afford it once I retire. Hopefully common sense will swing things back, after the spin we have had over the last 12 years. But I am not holding my breath!

teddy

 

[marval]

That is very true Teddy, too many chiefs and not enough indians. Unfortunately some of the treatments that are available, are deemed too expensive. There is also a postcode lottery here, some areas can obtain certain drugs some can't.

There should never be a price on someone's health, even if only a few people are saved by treatment, it must surely be worth it.


Margaret

 

[JHC]

teddy, after reading your post on the UK system I think ours (NZ) is not all that bad, but as Marg said the treatment and equipment to day cost millions and I can not see a way around that.